Register  |  Login  |  United States (change)
Forums

Vegas Pro - Video

Forums  |  Search  |  Login  |  Register  |  FAQ
Post New Topic Back to Vegas Pro - Video
Subject: Whither Smart Resample
Posted by: amendegw
Date: 1/9/2012 5:28:23 AM
 
This post: Project & render settings for YouTube from 60p? got me to thinking about "Smart Resample" - the default setting for video events.

In my work, I've found that "Smart Resample" has produced more problems than it solves. For example, when rendering to differing framerates or slowing down video events (e.g. cntl-drag or Velocity Envelope), "Disable Resample" must be set or the render quality degrades.

As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single instance where "Smart Resample" or "Force Resample" has helped my render.

So... I'd like to start a discussion on "Smart Resample"

1) Is "Smart Resample" really the desired default setting for video events?
2) Is there any way to change the default to "Disable Resample" (I know you can right click on multiple events and change resampling).
3) Do I even know what I'm talking about? Don't answer that! It's just a rhetorical question!

...Jerry

btw: In recent history, I almost exclusively shoot in 1920x1080 60p, and render for web delivery. May (or may not) be relevant to this discussion.

btw2: I just noticed I'd misspelled "whither" - I can change the "Subject title here, but not on the main thread listing.
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 5:47:51 AM
 
1) I quite agree. I find the blending of frames to be much more objectionable than having frames duplicated or dropped.

2) It's been asked for on occasion. It may be one of the numerous hex-encoded options in internal preferences but i haven't tried enough of them to find out yet.

3) I believe you do. There seems to be a pervasive feeling that smooth motion is the most important thing so Vegas defaults to it's own way of doing so. However, frame blending is not a good way to achieve it.
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 9:18:32 AM
 
A 'disable resample' checkbox in render options would make life a lot easier...
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 9:39:28 AM
 
I'd rather have it at the project level (though both would be nice). It can heavily affect previewing just as much as rendering.
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 9:48:59 AM
 
Okay, I didn't want to post this until others confirmed that a need existed, but I wrote a little script that might help others: SetResample.zip

Enjoy!
...Jerry
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 5:51:42 PM
 
"I just noticed I'd misspelled "whither""

So can we go back to "wither" as an imperative?
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 6:02:32 PM
 
Hmmm...

wither = Become dry and shriveled

whither = To what end or purpose?

maybe both apply? [chuckle]

...Jerry
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 6:32:48 PM
 
This is the event that got me thinking about resample. Before this, I was blissfully ignorant that such a parameter existed. If essami never does anything else for mankind, I will be forever in his debt for causing me to look at it.

I ended up disabling resample and using 720p60 on Blu-ray for the video from this source. Now I just accept 640x480-30p to keep from having to deal with the 15 fps issue. Some day I'm going to stop shooting video with a still camera.
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 6:34:15 PM
 
There's also whether (which seems truly appropriate these days :)

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd.

Mike
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 8:25:16 PM
 
Don't stop at "whether". There is also

weather, which can be as unpredictable as Vegas, and

wether, a sheep that is cut out to never be a father. Perhaps this applies to some features such as smart rendering AVCHD and Blu-ray on DVD that have been docked lately.
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/9/2012 10:49:15 PM
 
GREAT script Jerry!

Please take up Vegas scripting full time. With the logical way you approach user-friendliness and functionality in Vegas, I reckon you could come up with some crackers.

p.s. I now have this on the brain. Could be worse.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYi7uEvEEmk
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/10/2012 4:04:17 AM
 
"Please take up Vegas scripting full time..."
Ha! Thanks for the compliment, I'm really a newbie when it comes to scripting. Here's my workflow...

1) Look at how I did similar stuff in previous scripts,
2) Read a little about what others have done,
3) Read the class library documentation (Why can't they throw in some examples? Or at least give us some better definitions)
4) Try it, ah... that doesn't work,
5) Back to 1)
6) Darn, it still doesn't work
7) Looks like a .NET problem?
8) Google the issue.
9) Ahh.... that seems to fix it.
10) Test several scenarios.
11) Seems to work and doesn't break anything - do I dare share with others?
12) Phew! That was painful - lucky I'm retired and have time to do this.

Well, that was rather tongue-in-check, but I must say I'm really in awe of the jetdv's, johnnyroy's, johnmeyer's, rosebud's of the world (I'm sure there are more) when it comes to scripting.

...Jerry
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 1/10/2012 4:05:25 AM
 
One more thing - keep them puns coming! That's my kind of humor.

...Jerry

Edit (2012-02-13):

I've done some more testing here and want clarify my recommendations - just so folks reading my comments are not lead astray.

Recently, I've started shooting with a high shutter speed it improve the motion blur artifacts that occur when performing a "Rock Steady" stabilization via Mercalli V2. If I render this fast shutter footage to a different framerate, (to my eyes) "disable resample" visually improves the renders.

However, if my source footage is at a low shutter speed, the source footage contains motion blur. While the stabilization looks like crap (a technical term), the smoothness of motion in the resampled renders actually look better (again, to my old eyes) than those with "Disable Resample" applied.

So, what's the bottom line? There's no one answer for everything. Best advice is to do some test renders on your project and see what looks best.

Hope I haven't mislead anyone,
...Jerry
Reply   |  Report Abuse
Subject: RE: Whither Smart Resample
Date: 2/13/2012 5:03:42 PM
 
Jerry,
I think what you first need to do (if you haven't already) is to get your head around what Resampling in Vegas does. Then grasp that Force On / Off or Samrt is only controlling if that is invoked or not.

Basically how Vegas does its thing is to look for the frame that belongs at the current tick on the timeline.
If it can find an exact match it uses that frame. If your media's fps exactly matches the projects fps this will always be the case unless you've managed to have unquantized frames... which isn't all that hard to do by mistake in Vegas :(

If Vegas cannot find an exact match:
If Resample is enabled it creates a new frame by blending the two nearest frames. The blending ratio is determined by how far way the two frames are from the current tick.
If Resample is disabled it uses the nearest frame. This can mean frames will be duplicated.

Smart Resampling simply switches Resampling on or off based on the source footage fps matching the project fps.


Regarding your deliberations on shutter speed:

There are too many variables at play. You run a considerable risk of misleading yourself, rather like trying to find the molecular formula for coffee or chocolate :)

First and foremost you need to consider what the lens itself is doing. That is what controls the quality of the image that reaches the sensor so you cannot afford to ignore it. In general all but the most extremely expensive zoom lenses yield the highest resolution image at around the middle of their focal length and at a couple of stops below the iris being wide open. The other complication is if you close the iris too far the defraction caused by the light passing through the small hole that is the iris, affects image quality. For a small sensor camera this is a considerable limitation. Combine the two factors and you get a pretty small "sweet spot". That means there's a limited range of focal lenghts and iris openings (f stop) at which the image projected by the lens onto the sensor will be as good as it can be.

Taking that on board you can see that if you change shutter speed the iris has to open or close to keep the same amount of light reaching the sensor. That alone in a completely static shot is likely to affect image quality.

Now you might think the above has absolutely nothing to do with how motion looks but it does, yikes what a mess, our coffee syrup is not at all simple to make taste good :)
Image quality, not just simple resolution but MTF, has an impact on how we perceive motion. Our eye / brain system works mostly by looking at edges. So a very sharp image in motion is more likely to show up problems in how we perceive motion. If you doubt the veracity of this claim look at the number of people here having issues when they animate text. All generated media has a high MTF, it is tack sharp and between two adjoining pixels the contrast can be as high as it gets. Of course the impact of image MTF when you use a camera is not as dramatic but it is still a factor to consider. It also depends on what is in front of the camera of course.
In summary if you want to compare apples to apples you can't do that when the apple is in a fruit salad.

Bob.
Reply   |  Report Abuse

Post New Topic Back to Vegas Pro - Video
 
Sony


 
Follow Us Online Facebook Twitter YouTube Email Sign up:  Submit
 
Sony Creative Software inspires artistic expression with its award-winning line of products for digital video, music, DVD, and audio production.

Sound Forge, ACID, and Vegas software have defined digital content creation for a generation of creative professionals, amateurs, and enthusiasts.

© 2003-2014 Sony Creative Software Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Software
ACID Pro
ACID Music Studio
Photo Go
Sound Forge Pro
Sound Forge Audio Studio
Vegas Pro
Vegas Movie Studio
Vegas Movie Studio Platinum
All Software
Royalty-Free Content
Loops & Samples: Premium
Loops & Samples: Standard
Loops & Samples: Classic
All Loops & Samples
Artist Integrated Loops
Sound Effects
Vision Series
All Content
Download
Free Downloads
Trials and Demos
Updates
Manuals
Whitepapers
Utilities
Development Kits
All Downloads
Other
Product Support
Customer Service
Affiliate Program
Register Software
Training & Tutorials
Press Releases
Newsletters
Showcase
Site Map
 
McAfee SECURE sites help keep you safe from identity theft, credit card fraud, spyware, spam, viruses and online scams Sony.com