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Subject: The real Game Changer
Posted by: royfel
Date: 4/24/2012 6:47:21 AM
 
I believe that Lightworks will be the real game changer when released at the end of next month for $60(premium) or free (available now for free). Some credits include:The King's Speech
Shutter Island
The Departed
The Phantom of the Opera
Monster in Law
The Libertine
Proof
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
Dirty Pretty Things
The Aviator
Road to Perdition
Moulin Rouge
Revolutionary Road
Crime and Punishment
28 Days Later
Hugo
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 7:08:31 AM
 
The UI looks pretty immature, clunky, and lacking. Seems like it's got a long way to go before it catches up with Vegas.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 7:40:08 AM
 
Yeah but does it crash incessantly?
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 7:42:04 AM
 
Or black frames or replace footage? Or has it got its own gotchas?
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 8:11:49 AM
 
It is a game changer in that it further lowers the cost of entry into video editing. I know that my experience and talent can keep me in business, but the democratization of video making it harder to compete. That 90th birthday celebration will be edited by a doting great grandson instead of me. It won't be as cool and the music will be from itunes, but the family will be satisfied.

Fred
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 8:23:30 AM
 
when i worked in film many, many years ago lightworks (along with heavyworks) WAS the defacto standard. i never used it, but watched season editors using it and heard their praise of its 'film' tools.

with things as they are, i might just revisit it ;-)
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 8:52:50 AM
 
The free version won't handle the video formats I use regularly.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 9:02:52 AM
 
Taking a look I see it is open source and Free. Interface looks like it'll take a while to adapt to for my aged eyes.

Update:
Holly crap is it very unfriendly compared to Vegas.

Nuff said
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 9:27:33 AM
 
I've heard people that have been in the industry for decades speak of it with great respect.

Anyways I just had my account activated, one cannot argue with the price however as has been hinted at for a lot of the common video formats you do have to pay for 3rd party support so ultimately it might not be all that cheap.

On the upside this could be a good model IF it all hangs together OK.


Bob.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 10:51:58 AM
 
From what I can determine Lightworks does not support AVCHD files unless they are transcoded. This is a deal breaker for me.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 12:57:42 PM
 
lightworks a game changer? i wish i could find a place to lay money on this cuz it ain't gonna happen.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 2:04:33 PM
 
I downloaded it for grins. Incredibly non-intuitive, clunky. For instance, you import a file into a bin. Can you drag the file from the bin to the timeline? - NO. You have to click on Insert. Then, if you have two clips on the timeline, can you overlap them to create a simple crossfade? Nope. Geez. Just basic stuff is a pain.

Dead on arrival.

Mike
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 3:38:15 PM
 
AVCHD and many other codecs will be issued with the release version in 4 weeks, till then I have had great luck using it with cineform (no black frames). It is not intitutive but it doesn't crash, automatically backs up every key stroke and is optimized for many people working on the same project at once (multiple edits). It's hard to learn but if Scorese uses it I'll give it a fling. More drag and drop features in four weeks.
Just sayin.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 4:38:31 PM
 
Only had a very brief play with it but so far impressed.
I tried to import XDCAM MXF, I knew it shouldn't work as the codec is unsupported. Yet it read the wrapper correctly and gave me a "Codec unsupported" message in the import list. Vegas would have probably just crashed or done something unpredictable, certainly it wouldn't have said anything.
I tried to import 29.97fps video from my Chinavision camera, fair enough, didn't like that as the project was set to 25fps, another improvement over Vegas.
I imported 25fps video from the same camera, that worked just fine. So H.264 AVI files, no problem.
Audio mixer console looks the goods, uses the matrix switch paradigm to assign channels to buses etc. Old, simple, elegant and intuitive.
It has Racks and Bins, them I can relate to, why doesn't Vegas?
I like the "room" concept.

Not that impressed with the look of the interface but that is only dross, the basic guts looks excellent and the bells and whistles are easily added. Obviously not everyones cup of tea but for cutting a feature length production with multiple editors certainly a very serious contender and at the price, hard to beat.

Bob.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 4/24/2012 4:58:35 PM
 
It can read the timecode and reel name in quicktime files. That's an improvement over Vegas.

<Time passes..> On the other hand, it looks like it can't read the timecode in Vegas' DV files.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/29/2012 12:23:28 AM
 
"The real Game Changer" has been released today
http://www.lwks.com/
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/29/2012 7:21:49 AM
 
What is the secret to creating an account... I get unspecified errors and no activation e-mail.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/29/2012 12:34:19 PM
 
Well if there's one thing I've become aware of it's that if someone uses the word "game changer" on the forums they most likely have no idea what they are talking about. And am I the only one who caught that the person who posted this set up an account just to post this? Nicely played "royfel", if I was going to make such a idiotic statement I'd want to be anonymous too.

Moving on.

- Ray
Underground Planet
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/29/2012 1:08:31 PM
 
I was one of the first 100 to sign up before the open source edition came out last year. I had seen (the real) Lightworks in the past running on dedicated, and pretty expensive hardware. I was excited on the day it was released. What a nightmare! As with so many NLE's, this "going native" trend is a major programming obstacle to them. My worst Vegas experiences were like heaven compared to any session where I tried to accomplish something in Lightworks. I stayed on the forums, learned which codecs wouldn't work, learned all sorts of workarounds for the simplest of tasks, and after a couple of weeks of torture came to the conclusion: even being free this is too expensive. If I were payed to use it, I would retire.
And I'll add I was running it on a system that exceeds all their requirements and Vegas ran smoothly on it. I would never jump through the hardware/software hoops I have with Vegas for this piece of (software) Just my humble opinion.

Edit: In all fairness, I was so disappointed with the constant crashing, I've never given it a second chance and given it was a public beta type of thing probably should have. I never made it past the update that I think occurred during the first month of release. If it's evolved in the way a project of this nature should, my feelings are probably no longer valid.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/29/2012 1:11:34 PM
 
Just looking at the timeline is an ugly jumble. I'd also hate to try editing without thumbnails and waveforms. Ewwwwww.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/30/2012 4:39:17 AM
 
WTF is up with the workflow?
Cumbersome as all get out!
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/30/2012 5:58:29 AM
 
i think, though mostly from memory of seeing film editors working with it, that lightwave is NOT really what we expect an nle to be but much more a tool for film editors.

i agree with all the negative comments about the interface, but then again, i'm not a film editor who would be very much at home with bins, rooms, etc.,

as for the workflow - i gather it's now got a few bells and whistles, but from what i remember audio was always mixed / sweetened separately, and as for fx, colour grading, etc., that too was AFTER the main edit, which is what lightworks, along with heavy works excelled at.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/30/2012 8:30:21 AM
 
I'm OK with doing effects, audio, & everything AFTER the main edit because even though I may do most all those things in the NLE... I do them AFTER I lock picture/story.
(why would you ever want to waste time fixing footage or audio that will not be used?)

They should be offering it for FREE as the Lightworks workflow is just plain weird. I can't see anyone switching from any of the modern NLE's to go with the awkward flow of Lightworks. Especially if they had to pay for it. Lightworks can neither compare to the interaction of CS6 nor compete with the power and ease of use offered by Vegas. At it's current version, I'd rather go back to Media100 before Lightworks.

Even if you're shooting Film... don't you have to make it Digital to edit it on a computer?
At that point, why on Earth would you go with Lightworks? It's just too slow with it's workflow being so 'out of the norm'. 'Simple' things in other NLE's are Cumbersome & Awkward in Lightworks.

I can only see it as a Game Changer in the same sense that iFCP, iMovie Pro, FCPx (whatever it's called) was.

But naturally, wherever the industry goes... I'll follow.
After all, I did purchase a Mac years ago because FCP was all the rage. I now find myself using said Mac to run Windows and all the NLE's associated. - I sure do miss the FxFactory plugins though.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/30/2012 9:22:58 AM
 
"Even if you're shooting Film... don't you have to make it Digital to edit it on a computer?"

Yes, but you also have to deal with footage / files from the CGI, VFX and compositing teams. You also have editors and sub editors all working on the one project at once. I suspect from my very brief look at it, that is where its power lies. the ability to share assets online from backend servers with muliple desks / rooms all working together.

I also suspect a full blown setup for a couple of desks is going to cost very serious money by the time you factor in the backend hardware you'd easily blow $50K and then there's the SLAs from the support house to keep everything humming along.

Bob.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/30/2012 9:50:47 AM
 
The Lightwork screenshots remind me of Avid Media Composer circa 1996. I never liked the old Avid interface, the sprawl of cryptic icons. Bins and subclip functionality was cool, but it always felt like you were always lost in the timeline.

Vegas' graphical approach and cursor-centric functionality is just so much more user-friendly to me.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/30/2012 11:39:00 AM
 
Yes, but you also have to deal with footage / files from the CGI, VFX and compositing teams.
We do this with NAS. They simply drop their Rendered files into the specified folder and I import them. If they update the file/footage and re-save, it updates on my timeline. (with Premiere, Vegas, FCP) Seems like we had to have Avid Unity some years ago when I was in an Avid shop to accomplish this.

You also have editors and sub editors all working on the one project at once.
We also do this to some extent. Different editors may be editing different scenes. These scenes would be put together once complete. We sometimes Render them or Nest the Sequences. Any update shows up immediately on the timeline.

Maybe the strength is in our actual production. We tend to shoot/capture about 3:1 so most of what gets shot, gets used. We don't have tons of footage or meta data to deal with.

I'm definitely not arguing that Lightworks does not have its place in someone's arsenal. Just NOT mine.
Lightworks Make Me Game No Change.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/30/2012 7:39:36 PM
 
Lightworks was probably equally the most eagerly awaited and, for most of those who signed up, the most disappointing NLE event of 2011. I just don't think Lightwave developers and those still using it realize how far editing systems have advanced since the 1990's.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/31/2012 11:06:57 AM
 
Thank you for recognizing me as an idiot. I didn't start the name " game changer" but was replying to an earlier post. I have had an account here for since 1997and did not set up an account to post this.
What I was implying with the "game changer" comment was that here is a NLE with a lot of good stuff for free.
As to other stuff mentioned here: < timeline is an ugly jumble.> Time line can be configured however you want it (and with wave forms).
I use Vegas for Broadcast, I like it. But every time I hit render I have to pray I won't see black frames (yes I have the latest one) or green stripes or the thing won't just freeze, it is those times I start looking at other NLE's and a free one that doesn't crash and auto backsup every keystroke looks really good. It is clunky and not graphical with a steep learning curve but it has a good side...a very precise way to edit
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/31/2012 12:15:50 PM
 

You're welcome =)

- Ray
Underground Planet
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 5/31/2012 12:29:40 PM
 
I find it akward and crash-prone. If I'm going to crash, I would rather do it with software that I love.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 6/5/2012 1:17:20 PM
 
Does anybody know of any feature films that have been edited on Sony Vegas?
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 6/5/2012 2:13:06 PM
 
Not off the top of my head, but i did read in an interview with the sound designer for several of the Star Trek NG films that he used Vegas on his laptop for testing out music mixes, sound effects, and sweetening in real-time on the set, and then used the results of that to make preliminary mixes for the finished film.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 6/5/2012 3:49:38 PM
 
"Does anybody know of any feature films that have been edited on Sony Vegas? "

Ones that have had theatrical release:
Paranormal Activity. The movie with the highest profit based on ROI ever made.

Indie productions:
Deuce of Spades, certainly worth a watch.


Bob.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 6/5/2012 4:54:54 PM
 
"Does anybody know of any feature films that have been edited on Sony Vegas?"

taken from the Sony Vegas Wikki page:


List of films edited in Sony Vegas

Paranormal Activity (2007) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1179904/
Sasquatch Hunters (2005) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0339531/
Bendeyar (2011) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2069723/
Small Change (2010)(www.dogbytefilms.net) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1785563/
Zombies During Third Period: Again http://www.zombies2movie.com/movie.html
By the Light (under production) http://vimeo.com/19857410
OceanWorld 3D (2009) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1249415/
Picture Me (2009) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1459052/
Deuce of Spades (2010) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1384586/
Sleep Disorder (Pendulum Pictures)
Return of the Curse (Pendulum Pictures)
Bigfoot (film)
The Making of a Documentary
The Basement (indieflix.com)

List of TV shows edited in Sony Vegas

Survivor Man by Les Stroud http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770659/
Painting & Travel with Roger & Sarah http://www.paintingandtravel.com/
Ocean Wonderland 3D(2003)
Sharks 3D(2005)
Dolphins and Whales 3D(2008)
Air Shows by Mike Goulian http://mikegoulian.com/
Nightline
A Man's World http://amansworldtv.com/
WoodMarvels.com 3D Animations & Live Videos http://WoodMarvels.com/


Paul.
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 6/5/2012 5:09:29 PM
 
Don't forget Brokeback Mountain
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 7/19/2012 10:29:00 AM
 
ROYFEL ~

Not to be too simplistic but if it's good enough for Thelma and other big names there is likely something there. Especially for the price!

I'm always struck by the Vegas users who find other NLE's lacking by comparison because certain tasks seem to be more clunky or time-consuming. I'm pretty sure that such people are missing the keyboard shortcuts (or other steps) that are intended to make quick work of such steps.

As for what MUTT said about you above, this was standard fare ( in this forum) when I was around more often before I switched to a competitor. Their forum wouldn't put up with such a post. And after you dismantled his baseless, attack directed at you he wasn't even man enough to apologize to you.

I do miss the thoughtful, helpful posts of people like Farss but apart from him and others there are too many 'Vegas Rottweilers.'


JJM
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 7/19/2012 1:31:04 PM
 
Interesting to see why Thelma Schoonmaker likes Lightworks . Seems to have more to do with the flatbed film editing legacy than with NLE editing systems.

Jack
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 7/19/2012 2:25:46 PM
 
Apologize? For what exactly?

First off I didn't "recognizing (you) as an idiot" royfel, I said that it was an idiotic statement, referring to the title of this thread and the proclamation that this is any kind of game changer. A difference with distinction and one which I stand by.

Second, if JimboWHO is referring to my wrongful assumption that royfel was a first time poster I don't think I can be blamed for that when it WAS his first, and ONLY post under that user name:

Profile for: royfel

Profile for: royfphoto

So I ask again, apologize for what? For having an opinion? For disagreeing? For mistakenly thinking he was a first time poster even though in this case it appeared he was? Not sure what was dismantled, only clarified.

I've been around these forums for awhile now and I do not believe at any point in this thread have I said anything that once upon a time Sony "wouldn't put up with." Seems to me the only real personal attacks going on here are yours leveled at me. Not that I'm bothered mind you, I actually found your post rather humorous =)

- Ray
Underground Planet
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 7/19/2012 3:01:42 PM
 
Right - you can characterize others' opinions as "idiotic" so long as you don't actually call them an idiot. You can do this, happy with the distinction you think you've made in your mind.

Look, others have called you out on your need to belittle people but you'll continue to do so so long as you can justify it in your nuanced ways. Just as you've done here. It's such a bore.

You've also been ID'd as someone that reacts like a Pavlov's dog - "criticize my Vegas and you'll hear from me!"

This forum is full of threads with many instances of the above. Also, you misunderstand my point about what's tolerated in a forum like this. The mods of the OTHER forum that I am a member of would never tolerate your nonsense.

As for my original post, in no way did I engage in a personal attack on you although I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

Your approach leaves a lot to be desired; you can't build yourself up by tearing other people down.


JJM
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 7/19/2012 3:27:11 PM
 
wow... ive never seen so unintuitive app... but not sure if i'm a "real editor" ...
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 7/19/2012 3:43:37 PM
 
Right, a little 'opposition research' to uncover that I've switched to Media Composer and a thinly veiled shot to boot.

Unreal.


JJM
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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 7/19/2012 4:56:56 PM
 

JimboWHO, you are a silly silly man but I do so appreciate the attention you're giving me. It's a slow day so thank you for livening it up a little. Though you never did answer the question regarding your statement "he wasn't even man enough to apologize to you."

Now I'll be the first to admit that there have been a number of heated debates over the years but I'd beg to differ that I simply go around belittling people. Personally I think your statement is a bit of an overreach but if that's your opinion, fair enough. In most of those "flame war" type threads mud's been slung in every direction and I've gotten as much grief as have given. I don't mind that for whatever reason you want to single me out but it's always a two way street. Now I could cherry pick some of your comments in other threads that were, to me, rather incendiary and peppered with belittling statements but seriously, whatever. You were compelled to post on this dying thread just to call me out, congrats, you win.

"You've also been ID'd as someone that reacts like a Pavlov's dog - "criticize my Vegas and you'll hear from me!"

By whom? Is there a secret committee I'm unaware of? Is my name on some kind of list? If so, this is the first I've heard. My response would be the same as I've said over and over again:

"I have always been candid about the problems that I have had. This will be probably the 100th time I've said this but I feel the need to say it again, I have no issue at all with people reporting or talking about problems that they may encounter, it's in my best interest as a dedicated user for problems & bugs to be discussed."

That said its obvious you rehashed this thread either out of spite or on a lark just to goad me into a debate. Whatever your intent thanks for the entertainment and hope you're having a great day!

- Ray
Underground Planet






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Subject: RE: The real Game Changer
Date: 7/19/2012 5:32:06 PM
 
For how many years has it been 'changing the game' ? Game should be well-changed by now ....

geoff
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